Original Poetry Forums

Working toward the sonnet/starting as the novice poet

03-24-2010 at 02:59:19 AM
  • kabbalistic
  • kabbalistic
  • Posts: 45

RE: Working toward the sonnet/starting as the novice poet

I am enjoying this thread and appreciate the deseminated information. Thank you! Das Feldmarschal

04-01-2010 at 01:55:54 PM

RE: RE: Critique ~ of Aria's Poem 1

[/quote]What might help your confusion with anaphor is to read some poems by Walt Whitman. Uncle Walt will show you how to write an anaphora in a hurry. Look at all the lines that begin with the same phrase in one of his longer poems. You will get the idea of what the anaphora is, and how it is used.

a poet friend
RH Peat
cool hmmcool smirk[/quote]


I somehow messed up the quote thing but any who
"Leaves of Grass" is a must for any book collection in my opinion.

Last edited by thecross 04-01-2010 at 01:58:24 PM

04-01-2010 at 09:46:41 PM
  • kabbalistic
  • kabbalistic
  • Posts: 45

RE: Working toward the sonnet/starting as the novice poet

This is a wonderful class, I highly recommend it. I am going to try to catch up on the assignments after having only now gone over the reading material. (My flimsy excuse being that I have been busy with my own thread. I think our classes complement one another in a wonderful way!) rolleyesrolleyesrolleyescheesecheesecheese

04-05-2010 at 04:50:00 PM

RE: Working toward the sonnet/starting as the novice poet

We all need to appreciate your presence here RH. We most likely can't do that commensurate with the wealth of insight you bring to the table. Thank you for this thread.Thank you for your teacher skills ...and thank you also for the great gains I will have made personally, as I follow your lessons.

And this is all for free folks
excaim

04-06-2010 at 09:24:57 AM

RE: Working toward the sonnet/starting as the novice poet

I just found this very interesting and educational thread.
I wrote this poem without any knowledge about anaphors but probably they are present here.

Mountain and Desert

Should I climb the mountain to reach your heart?
All the paths are rocky and slope is steep
But the air is crystal and sky is blue
Should I climb the mountain to reach your heart?

Should I go through the desert to touch your hand?
Even heat is exhausting and send is dry
But the stars are the brightest there at night
Should I go through the desert to touch your hand?

No… I only have to jump in my car
And drive for an hour to come to your place
And just fall in your arms and forget the world
Yes I only have to jump in my car

I am sure I’ll be able to touch your hand
But it’s not that easy to reach your heart
Only hour of driving --easy way
But the Mountain and Desert still in place…

Forestbird

04-09-2010 at 07:46:14 AM
  • kabbalistic
  • kabbalistic
  • Posts: 45

Assignment 2: Fellow Traveler

Here is my entry for Assignment 2. I'm not sure that this piece fullfils the requirements since there doesn't seem to be a refrain. I will try again-please forgive me. It is hard to teach the tricks of a poodle to an old hound dog like me!

Fellow Traveler

In this virgin moment
where our beleaguered hearts
have been bonded and healed;

In this virgin hour
where our lives have thus
been inscribed and sealed;

We forever through
the deepest chasm have
forever a foundation laid;

To the slippery heights
of our perilous days,
we’ve to each other made;

That promise to guard
the virgin days and
virgin treasures of virgin bliss;

Though we may aimlessly
wind, turn and falter-yet
determined to never again miss;

Each other on the treacherous
way, the briared path-
the uncertain, riddled end;

With you my fellow traveler,
this virgin forever
I pledge to willingly spend.

04-10-2010 at 06:57:19 AM

RE: RE: RE: Working toward the sonnet/starting as the novice poet

Quote:
Originally Posted by RHPeat

Originally Posted by kabbalistic

This is a wonderful class, I highly recommend it. I am going to try to catch up on the assignments after having only now gone over the reading material. (My flimsy excuse being that I have been busy with my own thread. I think our classes complement one another in a wonderful way!) rolleyesrolleyesrolleyescheesecheesecheese


Oh, well feel free to refer to my class from yours. And I will read yours and see if I can use you as reference as well. A poet friend// RH Peat


***************************************************************************************************

Yeah, These lessons are invaluable even to veteran poets. Veteran poets? Is there such a being? True poets are evergreen students.. They learn every moment of the day, in their sleeping and in their waking.

I am pleased to see here recommended an excellent reference book: "A GLOSSARY OF LITERARY TERMS by M. H.Adams. I keep my copy next to my Bible.

04-13-2010 at 06:43:03 PM

RE: Working toward the sonnet/starting as the novice poet

WOW........I am so glad I didn't major in poetry...........I don't know which is
more mesmerizing...your poems or the rules, ....God bless you Spring...

surprised............and, ohh..............................................gogant

04-14-2010 at 02:18:10 PM
  • kabbalistic
  • kabbalistic
  • Posts: 45

Assignment 1-A Holocaust Rememberance (Ha shaloakh)

Here is my attempt at assignment Number 1, with two different anaphoras in two comparative stanzas. This is a Holocaust Rememberance Poem.

Below are the Hebrew terms used in this piece.

mezog hayayin=the wine is poured
nishama=is the highest level of the eternal soul, according to Jewish mystism (Tanya)
ruakh=literally means ''wind'', it refers to the spirit.
klippa=an evil spirit, an ill wind.
*****************************************************************************************************
Yom Hashoakh (The Wine Is Poured)

Mezog hayayin-the wine is poured into vindictive, ruby chalice;
Mezog hayayin-the bitter herbs are thus fleshed out upon the land;
Mezog hayayin-the "Night of Long Knives" stabs us in darkest deepness;
Mezog hayayin-we see not our haters as we huddled in cattle cars;
Mezog hayayin-the wine is squeezed through hateful press which sucks out life;
Mezog hayayin-it is our life through hopeless veins which begs for ending;
Mezog hayayin-it is illegal to be what we are and have always been;
Mezog hayayin-against the law to be a Jew; we are thus all guilty;
Mezog hayayin-the wine is poured out never to reach our needy lips.

Never again! Can we ignore the holy teachers of nishama and haruakh?
Never again! Can we crush glass with naked feet and not spill wine?
Never again! Can we dance "horah" to not smell the virgin, pungent flesh in cinders?
Never again! Can we spurn the deal to make law our convenient little slutbitch?
Never again! Can we face our hateful selves as filthy klippa?
Never again! To pour oblations to worldly queen of mighty pride and mammon?
Never again! To dance jigs and hops and skips of clueless ritual?
Never again! The pitiful, dying plea drowned out by hollow banter?
Never again! To sell sacrificial wine poured out as genocidal nectar?


Does this comply with the assignment requirements? I'm sorry that it has taken so long. You may see me recite this live at


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLWgrlnbiU0

Last edited by kabbalistic 04-14-2010 at 04:34:16 PM

04-15-2010 at 03:12:00 AM
  • kabbalistic
  • kabbalistic
  • Posts: 45

RE: RE: Assignment 1-A Holocaust Rememberance (Ha shaloakh)



well yes it's an anaphora and of course, perfectly written....but it doesn't make it any easier to read.

"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you
judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will
be measured back to you... Hypocrite (Pretender)! First remove
the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to
remove the speck from your brother's eye." (Matt. 7:1-5)

Yes, call me Boobilah...it's yiddish. My great-grandparents were Jews who immigrated to America to escape racial prejudice. Thank you for helping me to remember who I am. Was there not a yiddish word for "slutbitch?"....or perhaps that word is Boobilah. [/quote]

No, Boobilah, I would NEVER call you that!!! The Yiddish word for ''slut'' is shiksa, and the Yiddish word for ''whore'' is kurva or tsatzkele (bimbo). OK, Boobilah?gringringrinwinkwinkwinkrolleyesrolleyesrolleyesred facered face

04-16-2010 at 04:26:47 PM

RE: Critique of Poem 7 - Wings by Aria

Quote:
Originally Posted by Springsize

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aria


Poem 7 (Pantoum) - Wings

****************************************************************************************************
Aria, this poem is Just beautiful... You take flight with both imagination and your time, upon your trusted winged friend... your Poem is gentle, is also wild with leaving heavy material Earthen as a low gravity, and you're moving into the high realms where spiritual and universal welfare hold hands... a high realm you leave Reader and Earth behind in your travels with him; and it is Always a treasure to read your expressions of meaningful moments.

I will make one Mechanical comment, in that the 1st and 3rd lines in the first stanza are to be used in the last stanza, and you did that.... and I noticed that you reversed them...

This was not an easy assignment task, but you have mastered the Form, line count, the repetition (with continued meaning) and perfectly metered, each stanza count. Yeaaaa

*************************************************************************************************
Competence in spades, I marvel at how lucid your work is. The stories you tell all seem to be mini movies and testify to your ability to juncture thoughts more seamlessly than most; And all within the physical constraints of an imposed structure. Marvelous!

04-25-2010 at 04:42:27 PM
  • kah
  • kah
  • Posts: 339

RE: RE: RE: RE: the Critique comments of the poems by kah

Quote:
Originally Posted by RHPeat

Originally Posted by kah

Originally Posted by Springsize



Hi kah -

This is a very informative experience for me as well... and please remember, I am also a student and may provide less than complete or accurate critiques.


RE: your Poem 1 - anaphora

I did notice the repeats that you used, kah... but from the previous instructions, I think anaphora is supposed to be a profound experience, or repeated so many times, one might think the record stuck... ok, that's a phrase back from 1958, when there were records instead of discs... and for those younguns...
sometimes the needle (that played the records) would get stuck and one would have a repetition that would make any anaphora proud.


RE: your Poem 2 -

I made the comment about "strange tercets"... because they are a different form of rhyme for me...
Three lines in a stanza is a new concept, and I found it strange (not in a negative way) that of the 3 lines in each stanza, only two will rhyme.



Thank you Springsize. I read what you wrote for anaphora - now I get it! The repetition was much more obvious - not so subtle. I liked you work! I'm reluctant to critique as I'm such a novice. I'm not certain I know enough to make a decent critique!! LOL. That's ok, I'm learning and intend to keep on going!
kah
smile


Kah
just keep rereading poetry in a nutshell which is on the first page. All the basics are there. Feel free to comment on any of these types of presentations in anyone else's work. Then as we progressed through the other writing exercises feel free to comment on any of the given information there as well. Feel absolutely secure in making any statement about what's been covered thus far in the course of writing exercises and given information. Even the essays by others like Lorca or Lu Chi. It is all information that can be used in the critique. You are just sharing your understanding of the craft with another about how you see the exercises within the presented material. That is what any critique can offer.

You can even tear the poem apart line by line if you wish. It will make you see what is in the depth of the poem and it will make you a better writer if you attempt to dig as deep as you can into another's work. They don't have to agree with you at all. A critique is not about agreement; it's about what you see on the page as a fellow writer. As well: the receiver can be in total disagreement. it doesn't matter at all. Why, because each critique makes you grow a bit more. And if they took the time to look at and to see what you were saying they grew a bit more as well wether they made changes or not in their work. That's the point.

The openness to give and receive a critique to the best of your ability makes you a better writer. Much can be perceived learned, and envisioned by tearing apart a poem and reconstructing it in your own head. That's the point of the exercises and to be interactive with outer writers and to share each other's writing skills. And this is why I'm trying to stay out of the interactive part. Because if I were to critique someone's poem they'd know they would have been hit by a landslide. That's too much for someone just beginning.

So the exercises are for those that want to take part in this learning process in this part of poetry school. So feel open and unafraid in a the critiqueing process. It doesn't matter whether someone agrees or disagrees with what you have to say. Just say it and give your reason's why you see it that way you do. Then you have offered a good critique. That's a gift to the other writer even if they are in total disagreement. Learning to write commentary on your craft make you a better craftsman. And that is the whole gist to the complete course toward the "Sonnet", because the English sonnet is considered the highest form of poetic presentation. That's our goal here. So writing the commentary to the best of your ability is just as important as the writing the exercises to the best of your ability. Go get 'em and don't look back. You have everything to gain and nothing to lose.

A poet friend
RH Peat


Thank you,RHPeat - I will start. You are right, it's a good way to learn - the critiquing process...both getting and giving.
kah

04-28-2010 at 09:49:19 PM
  • kah
  • kah
  • Posts: 339

RE: Working toward the sonnet/starting as the novice poet

RHPeat wrote: I would like every one to think on these statements; feel free to make comments on these thoughts between one another. Write what you feel these 2 things do or mean within a poem.
1. Why did I suggest writing these first poems in stanzas and
2. then later move into counting syllables in lines/ verses.


Question 1 –
I think poem 1 was written in stanzas to better show the comparison. The break between stanzas sets the reader up for the “second half” of the poem. I also notice when I am reading poetry that stanzas give me a mental pause and/or an expectation of some sort of shift or change in the piece.

Question 2 –
I think the next poems were written with counted syllables in the lines/verses to exercise the idea of heighted creativity. I also noted that structured verses (tercets, quatrains) provide a type of “paragraphing”; that is, I was aware of moving the poem along from opening, turning and closure in direct context of the line count and verse structure.

kah

04-28-2010 at 10:20:42 PM
  • kah
  • kah
  • Posts: 339

RE: Working toward the sonnet/starting as the novice poet

RHPeat wrote: Some things to consider within these thoughts
1. What does a line break do? (versification)
Ok, first, I had to look up versification. Now that I understand that word, I can answer the question! LOL. Lines breaks help give strength to an idea or action. Breaking a line at an unusual place in verse could signify a change or shift in meaning, intent or rhyme.

2. What does a stanza break do? (word groupings vs line groupings)
I’m thinking a stanza break helps to create a shift or introduce another element (theme, subject, plot twist) to the poem.

3. What does enjambment mean, and how can it effect both lines and stanzas?
Enjambment is a sort of poetic run-on; the thought is not completed in a metric line, and is therefore continued into the next line. It seems to have the effect of throwing the flow off a bit while reading. However, in terms of writing, it can create a slighty different flow/energy within a poem’s stanza.

4. How does one double the intent in a line by where the thought is broken at the end of the line?
One example of double intent (I think!) is having a word at the end of the line have a meaning as the last word, but alters the meaning when in the middle of the line. Does this make sense? LOL.

5. What's meant by a "Pun Metaphor"?
I’m not sure…

6. What is the advantage of running a thought from one line into the next?
Well, as mentioned above, changing up the flow or feel of the poem. Also, being able to complete a full thought and still maintain syllable count.

7. What is meant by contextual flow/ rhythm?
??

8. What happens to the rhyme on the end of the line when the thought is carried into the next line? (What's nuances in rhyme like melody?)
??

9. What is an "end-stop"? What is in opposition to an "end-stop" what is the advantage of both? What's the difference?

End stop is a thought that is completed with one line - no carry over. I think enjambment would be the opposite; End stop keeps the mental flow of a poem concise and effortless; enjambment give the reader a mental pause or double take.

10. A. What is cadence?
The auditory rhythm of a written work.

B. What is a metric foot
One full count of a defined number of accented and unaccented syllables in a line of poetic verse.

C. What is meant by rhythm?
I’m not sure how to define it except as the beat of a song or poem or someone’s speech.

11. What forms of poetry use cadence? What forms use metric feet? Is there a specific advantage in knowing both skills?
Free verse or free from poetry uses cadence; more structured poetry (such as sonnets!) use metric feet. The advantage in knowing both skills is that the writer can choose what style and structure will best suit the needs of the author – each type has it’s strengths.

kah - my humble attempt to learn something!! LOL

04-28-2010 at 10:29:09 PM
  • kah
  • kah
  • Posts: 339

RE: Working toward the sonnet/starting as the novice poet

RHPeat wrote: Ask yourself what these questions mean to you

1. What is meant by epiphany?
To have a sudden insight or comprehension of meaning.

2. So what is the advantage of knowing as much as you can about your art and craft?
The more I know about the craft of poetry, the more ways I can express my thoughts etc. Hopefully passing along epiphanies to all! LOL

3.What is gained when you have more possibilities to a particular thought's presentation as a poem?
You can guide the reader to the conclusion or meaning in the way you feel is best.

The ever studious kah!

04-29-2010 at 05:19:25 PM

RE: RE: RE: Working toward the sonnet/starting as the novice poet

[quote="RHPeat"][quote="kabbalistic"]This is a wonderful class, I highly recommend it. I am going to try to catch up on the assignments after having only now gone over the reading material. (My flimsy excuse being that I have been busy with my own thread. I think our classes complement one another in a wonderful way!) rolleyesrolleyesrolleyescheesecheesecheese[/quote]

Oh, well feel free to refer to my class from yours. And I will read yours and see if I can use you as reference as well. A poet friend// RH Peat[/quote]
\**************************************************************************************************
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I must confess Dr. Peat that i have also---- worse than Kabbalistic--, been playing hooky. My Friend's excuse does not sound convincing---LOL--I am suggesting to you to visit his thread,as often as possible, to convince yourself.
He himself has admitted that his excuse is "flimsy"....LOL. I hope that you will accept mine. I am absent due to pressure of working, in retirement and relaxing, in fact, for constant survival......LOL. You are laughing, sir? Please be serious, sir! "Let us not be weary in well-doing," (Galatians 6:;9 ). I have been reading your lectures and realize that you are doing a wonderful job, Though we ought not to tell tales out of school,sir, how are John Wordslinger and the petite Sprngsize doing? And, of course, some other attentive and inattentive ones, like that Dahlushion who is busy publishing an Anthology, instead of attending class. Have you seen a generously vibrant Tierra, a vivacious Aria and a dazzling Mareann, prolific and graceful Madelynn and a BettyRainbow and a pretty Leslie Alexis? I would name all of the lovely poetesses to you, sir, with pleasure, especially, but I lost the piece of paper with the names of some of them,and I lost my laptop in Chibavelleu..I also do not wish to intrude on your valuable and well-spent time. Do you know Chibavelleu sir? It's an imaginary town near to Malibu and far from another town the idle rich and the casino and the jet crowd and movie stars call Las Vegas. I have discovered that the Fountain of Youth is in that area, though some believe it is in Florida..I have no intention of looking for the Founain,sir, I shall write a poem about it ,instead, to encourage other, with 20/20 vision to search for it. Have you noticed ,sir, that a lot of retired and people of permanent leisure and ease, are migrating to Florida ,from up North, in search of the Fountain? I am composing an iambic poem to tell them that the Fountain is located in Chibavekleu near to Malibu and far from Las Vegas. It's two hours drive from sunrise to sunset,sir, It takes all types in the Class, and outside of The Class, includng Neville, to make a square world look round, Bless them---all of them. Invite the papazki master baker to bring us some doughnuts, next class, please. Grito Ortiz is not very well, or I bet he and his beloved wife, Ingrid Ortiz, would be in Class regularly. Did you know that Grito is not too well,sir?. Ii you are a praying man, please join us in prayer, sir.
When last have you heard from George Arndt Gogant, sir? He was busy chopping down the trees in his backyard. I think you ought to ask him to write a six stanza obituary in iambic pentameter,sir, or an ode on the sad demise of his precious trees, They are all smart Guys , including one by the name of Marsink and another by he name of Qualin. One of those two seems to delight in peering about into old ships,and to write in perfect iambic.meter and rhyme about them., Bless them, again---all. I could name some others like Holbert and Hampton, but you are due to give a lecture,and I have to hurry back to work. I can't allow myself to lose my job. Jobs are hard to get, nowadays.
I tried writing all of this in heroic iambic meter, sir. But it was no good,sir! I believe it was easier for Hercules to clean the Augean Stables, than for me to write this apology for my absence, in poetry.
. Good day sir, if you read this apology in daylight,and most imperatively, Good night,sir,if you read it by moonlight. Should you desire to reply to my apology, you know my e-mail address, sir, or you could call and ask me for my telephone number, sir. I shall be willing to oblige. ........LOL.

Last edited by cousinsoren 04-29-2010 at 08:22:26 PM

05-01-2010 at 11:40:47 PM
  • kah
  • kah
  • Posts: 339

kah's assignments

Poem 1

http://www.originalpoetry.com/the-evening-does-glide

============================================================

Poem 2:

http://www.originalpoetry.com/to-whom-it-may-concern_14

=============================================================

Poem 3

http://www.originalpoetry.com/a-conceit

============================================================

Poem 4:

http://www.originalpoetry.com/the-gift_25

============================================================

Poem-5

http://www.originalpoetry.com/the-six-napoleons

============================================================

Poem 6

http://www.originalpoetry.com/loneliness_29

==============================================================

Poem 7

http://www.originalpoetry.com/this-little-girl

=============================================================

Writing Exercise 8

http://www.originalpoetry.com/on-love-and-other-variables

============================================================

assignment 9

http://www.originalpoetry.com/the-dance-of-loves-most-perfect-blade

=============================================================

Assignment 10

http://www.originalpoetry.com/turn-away

=============================================================

Poem 11

http://www.originalpoetry.com/streetwalker

=============================================================

Poem 12

http://www.originalpoetry.com/fantasy-of-you

==============================================================

Poem 13

http://www.originalpoetry.com/sirens-song

==============================================================

Poem 14

http://www.originalpoetry.com/awake-a-sontoum

=============================================================

Poem 15

http://www.originalpoetry.com/sonnet-no-1

==============================================================

Poem 16

http://www.originalpoetry.com/sonnet-ii_2

==============================================================

Poem 17

http://www.originalpoetry.com/to-heal

==============================================================

Poem 18

http://www.originalpoetry.com/all-this-while-dreaming

=============================================================

Poem 19

http://www.originalpoetry.com/damn-it

============================================================

Poem 20

http://www.originalpoetry.com/i-was-his-world

==============================================================

Poem 21

http://www.originalpoetry.com/duality_5

==============================================================

Poem 22

http://www.originalpoetry.com/on-poetry

===============================================================

Poem 23


http://www.originalpoetry.com/fallen_29

===============================================================

Poem 24

http://www.originalpoetry.com/infatuation_3

==============================================================

Poem 25

http://www.originalpoetry.com/pirouette

===============================================================

Poem 26

http://www.originalpoetry.com/perspective-is-subjective

==============================================================

Poem 27

http://www.originalpoetry.com/another-wonder

=============================================================

Poem 28

http://www.originalpoetry.com/how-to-be-human

==============================================================

Poem 29


http://www.originalpoetry.com/in-the-morning_2

===============================================================

Prose Poem

http://www.originalpoetry.com/on-time_2

===============================================================

Haiku

http://www.originalpoetry.com/haiku_22

==============================================================

Argonelle

http://www.originalpoetry.com/you-and-i_35

===============================================================

Pindaric Triad

http://www.originalpoetry.com/light-eternal-transforms

===============================================================

Last edited by kah 01-20-2011 at 02:02:43 PM

05-08-2010 at 05:54:54 PM
  • kah
  • kah
  • Posts: 339

Reading about Duende - comments and thoughts by kah

I have just finished reading the post concerning Lorca Duende. I found the information fascinating! I enjoyed learning and reading about Muses, Angels, and Duende. In theory and emotion, I have had no trouble understanding Muses and Angels. Their concepts and influence are comfortable and well known to me. I understand how their concept may influence a writer's words and intent within their poem.

Duende was a word and concept I had never formally been introduced to. I say formally, because once I read the concept and examples of duende, I realized that is the vaporous "thing" I try to connect to and capture within my writing. Because duende seems to have connection with blackness and death, it serves as a window between what-is-known and what-is-felt, between the concrete world and the difficult-to-explain world.

When I read a poem or creative piece that really resonates or stays with me, I'm thinking that may be due do to duende...that difficult to describe power or sensation in writing.

The post was lengthy, and I've taken in alot of information! It's sure to settle - I just wanted to post my thoughts on the reading. Oh, I also looked up duende in wikipedia - the concept is present in most cultures.

kah

05-08-2010 at 09:51:48 PM
  • kah
  • kah
  • Posts: 339

RE: RE: Reading about Duende - comments and thoughts by kah

Quote:
Originally Posted by RHPeat

Originally Posted by kah

I have just finished reading the post concerning Lorca Duende. I found the information fascinating! I enjoyed learning and reading about Muses, Angels, and Duende. In theory and emotion, I have had no trouble understanding Muses and Angels. Their concepts and influence are comfortable and well known to me. I understand how their concept may influence a writer's words and intent within their poem.

Duende was a word and concept I had never formally been introduced to. I say formally, because once I read the concept and examples of duende, I realized that is the vaporous "thing" I try to connect to and capture within my writing. Because duende seems to have connection with blackness and death, it serves as a window between what-is-known and what-is-felt, between the concrete world and the difficult-to-explain world.

When I read a poem or creative piece that really resonates or stays with me, I'm thinking that may be due do to duende...that difficult to describe power or sensation in writing.

The post was lengthy, and I've taken in alot of information! It's sure to settle - I just wanted to post my thoughts on the reading. Oh, I also looked up duende in wikipedia - the concept is present in most cultures.

kah


Yes, the three doorways to the metaphor into the poem. 1. The art/ or muses speaking for creation, a desire to be born we might say; that an expression inside us wants to be conceived. A need to express and to be expressed. 2. The angel/ the spiritual or metaphysical presentation of metaphor because of it's inclusive nature. All the condensed implications of the metaphor. And 3. Dunede/ the ghoul, But not so much in the sense of darkness and death, but in the actual struggle in life for understanding the moment. For it is a celebration for life and death in the sense that birth implies death. We all will die. Duende is the release of the compacting within the heart. That in reality things don't always fit into right and wrong but more in the sense of shades of gray in the middle ground. That we need to express what isn't always thought of in an established or current way. That there is another point of view beyond the traditional as the un-traditional opposed to just the anti-traditional or traditional. That duende accepts all sources as part of the obtained timeless journey. Or what Joseph Campbell might call the "Heroic Journey" revealed in spontaneity. That duende reaches for the full expression of that struggle to be live and dying as a human. it reaches into the unclear realms of understanding that are extremely complex.

Yet if it is there; you feel it with a power that is unmistakable when it arrives. Within the art form it changes life experience into a new life that is the living presence of the moment. Duende is timeless in that sense of presence for it is the culmination of the complete presentation. It is very similar to what I have been saying about epiphany. That due to the presentation of the art form epiphany is reached by the writer and the reader. That it is not a description or explanation or even a telling of the event, for it is the event itself that is felt beyond the mere understanding of the presentation. It's not speaking about an experience so much as offering an experience as a journey to be taken. That the writer needs to know the experience before he can put it into a form that will allow the reader to experience the experience.

Here is a prose poem which could be called a fine example of Duende, yet it was written long before Lorca gave his speech on Duende. And it speaks of an experience every poem should have touched upon at the same time.

From—THE NOTEBOOKS OF MAUTE LAURIDS BRIGGE
by Rainer Maria Rilke

[FOR THE SAKE OF A SINGLE POEM]
... Ah, poems amount to so little when you write them too early in your life. You ought to wait and gather sense and sweetness for a whole lifetime, and a long one if possible, and then, at the very end, you might perhaps be able to write ten good lines. For poems are not, as people think, simply emotions (one has emotions early enough) they are experiences. For the sake of a single poem, you must see many cities, many people and things, you must understand animals, must feel how birds fly, and know the gesture which small flowers make when they open in the morning. You must be able to think back to streets in unknown neighborhoods, to unexpected encounters, and to partings you had long seen coming; to days of childhood whose mystery is still unexplained, to parents whom you had to hurt when they brought in a joy and you didn't pick it up (it was a joy meant for somebody else—); to childhood illnesses that began so strangely with so many profound and difficult transformations, to days in quiet, restrained rooms and to mornings by the sea, to the sea itself, to seas, to nights of travel that rushed along high overhead and went flying with all the stars,—and it is still not enough to be able to think of all that. You must have memories of many nights of love, each one different from all the others, memories of women screaming in labor, and of light, pale, sleeping girls who have just given birth and are closing again. But you must also have been beside the dying, must have sat beside the dead in the room with the open window and the scattered noises. And it is not yet enough to have memories. You must be able to forget them when they are many, and you must have the immense patience to wait until they return. For the memories themselves are not important. Only when they have changed into our very blood, into glance and gesture, and are nameless, no longer to be distinguished from ourselves—only then can it happen that in some very rare hour the first word of a poem arises in their midst and goes forth from them.

A poet friend
RH Peat


Yes, yes - that is exactly it - when I think back to how I thought/felt/viewed the world as a person in my teens and twenties, I realize now how slight my experiences were - how much more rich my aging has made my experiences. I can draw from a much deeper well of perspectives when I write.

And yes, I see how epiphany is very close to duende - very cool smile

Thanks, RHPeat - Truly you have posted a vast amount of information and knowledge here. I'm very grateful!!
Kah

05-09-2010 at 11:48:06 PM

Poem 10 - 18 by la


Poem 10:
http://www.originalpoetry.com/pretty-birds-flocking
poem 11A
http://www.originalpoetry.com/home/poems/view/title/floating-rock-terza-rima

poem 11B
http://www.originalpoetry.com/home/poems/view/title/keep-your-chains-terza-rima-sonnet
Poem 12
http://www.originalpoetry.com/home/poems/view/title/i-love-you-dearest-wife-of-mine-villanel
Poem 13. It gave me hell! I loved it!
http://www.originalpoetry.com/home/poems/view/title/terzenelle
Poem 14. Sontoum
http://www.originalpoetry.com/home/poems/view/title/nature-lover-sontoum

poem 15. Shakey's Sonnet
http://www.originalpoetry.com/home/poems/view/title/a-love-that-blossomed-shakespearian-sonn

Poem 16 P. sonnet
http://www.originalpoetry.com/home/poems/view/title/just-seventeen-petrachan-sonnet
Poem 17: Sestina
http://www.originalpoetry.com/i-only-wish-to-love-you-more-sestina
poem 18: tuanortsa
http://www.originalpoetry.com/home/poems/view/title/i-am-the-wind-vane-tuanortsa


Hey, is school out for the summer or something? there is very little traffic... why?

Last edited by leslieAlexis 06-25-2010 at 03:03:45 PM

05-12-2010 at 12:12:09 AM

RE: Working toward the sonnet/starting as the novice poet

[/b


MASTER POETS, POET LAUREATES and CRITICS


On closer examination, no poet is a master of his art. The conscious poet is always a student agonizing with Humanity and Nature,

The best literary critic is one who succeeds in believing that he is never wrong nor right, therefore, the more he learns , the less he knows.

************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

. .
Dr. Ron Peat,

Some good things are happening on this thread. Although, I have not been doing the exercises, being an unavoidable "juvenile delinquent", I read your lccrures thoroughly and learn from them, Thanks.

Last edited by cousinsoren 05-12-2010 at 12:43:35 AM

05-13-2010 at 03:06:48 PM
  • kah
  • kah
  • Posts: 339

RE: a question on iambs...

Hi RHPeat,
You gave the following tercet as an example for iambic pentameter. I'm confused in line 1 - the third foot - how is the "s beside" an iamb? it seems the "s" from "roses" is one syllable, and beside is two...Help!!

Thanks -
kah


(we live) (like rose)(s beside) (the gate)
(with blooms) (against) (the stones) (along)
(the house) (a-top) (the roll) (ing hill)

05-13-2010 at 03:20:19 PM
  • kah
  • kah
  • Posts: 339

RE: marking the scansion

Ok, here's my attempt at marking scansion and recognizing iambs...
kah

The Swamp

It will /become/ like sec/ond hand
A mead/ow lark/ that sings/ all day
See what/ I mean/ it dance/s so soft (here's that pesky "s" thing I was asking about)
One wing/ on clouds/ anoth/er flaps
It turns/ beyond/ anoth/er cloud
And then/ we dance /as it/ slip-slides
To tunes/ within/ our lit/tle heads
Tell me that you see what I mean - This line confused me...doesn't feel iambic!
And you/ can tag /along/ from here
While we/ skip too/, from where/ you are

big surprise

05-13-2010 at 09:23:06 PM
  • kah
  • kah
  • Posts: 339

RE: Working toward the sonnet/starting as the novice poet

RHPeat wrote:

Define the difference between blank verse and free verse for yourself.

I think I got this down. Blank verse is a metered poem without rhyme.
Free verse is an un-metered poem. It seem that free verse relies more on cadence and the author's sense of timing and drama to keep the flow going, whereas blank verse has a natural musical flow due to the use of structured meters.

Thanks
kah



05-19-2010 at 04:23:13 PM
  • kabbalistic
  • kabbalistic
  • Posts: 45

RE: Working toward the sonnet/starting as the novice poet


Assignment #2, here's my tercet. Actually, I will submit another one that does not rhyme.

Edison Place, Peter Francisco Park, 2010

On murky marsh of memory,
As far as eye can rightly see
A sad, slab stone in dying park;

It sits forlorn in Down Neck's square,
We've long forgotten why it's there,
Stands resolutely in the dark.

We in that war that makes no sense,
A list of names is written hence,
As loved ones mourn their heavy loss;

We ask "How shall we win this war"?
Not "What are we here fighting for?"
Can't bear the weight of moral cross.

No lessons learned-we've failed to ask,
We're not equiped for daunting task,
Of fighting lies and apathy.

And "peace with honor" Nixon said,
Without objection from the dead,
Whose names on slab we clearly see.

One name inscribed was Bill O'Shea,
Whose sisters heard the news that day,
The war had run its awful course.

Had claimed a life it does not own,
A cold inscription etched in stone,
Inflicted grief through foolish force.

In school I saw the sisters grief,
In tragic truth beyond belief,
Their cries cannot be fully heard;

Across from sleepy bus and train,
A palid slab will thus remain,
That final, frigid, silent word.


Does this fullfill the requirements of the assignment?


Poetry is not a turning loose of emotion, but an escape from emotion.

T. S. Eliot (1888-1965) American-English poet and playwright.